draft horse advice

Hi Sara, I started looking for a blog for some layman advice and came across your website....; I was impressed with your style as well as your horsemanship so am hoping you can answer a question for me......... I have a 3 yo Clydesdale Mare that I started riding a few months ago,...... She is an angel and I worked with her alot on the ground since I got her as a 6 month old .....so it's been easy going so far. ........... I have been riding her about 15-30 mins a few times a week,........... nothing major and she's handling it well.............. My first question is at what point is it safe to do heavier riding with her? I am referring to her physical development............ Mentally she is clearly a 3 yo and tons of fun to ride but I do not want to push her physically and cause developmental damages............. My second question is how can I tell how big she will be?............. In other words, when do they stop growing?....... I have measured from her knee to her hoof and come up with 18 inches, "accordingly" she should be 18 h ...........does that generality hold true of clydesdales as well as other breeds?.............. She is currently about 16.3 h and turned 3 in May............. I look forward to hearing from you and Thank you for any advice you can give. ....Colleen Monn

From:	sara shalda performance horses .com <sarashalda@aim.com>
To:	colleen.monn@gmail.com
Date:	Sun, 10 Aug 2008 9:42 am.

Hi! My name is Marsha Chodnicki. i want to get a bit to fit my draft horse. His is, I think, mostly clydesdale.... He has very large lips and his tongue sqeezes out between his teeth. I don't think there is much room in his mouth. .... I am riding him in a full cheek snaffle, but would like to get a snaffle bit with a break in the middle, like a french link or something. He is easy to stop, so I want to stay as gentle as I can with the bit.....he is wearing a 6 1/2 now, but I think a 7 would be even better. He really does have rolly polly lips. ..Let me know what you think. Thanks!...Sincerely,Marsha C.

dear marsha
thanks for the email...i can easily make a french link full cheeck snaffle for you if thats what you want...i can make any port you dream of....did you look at all the other bits i make on my website..?...are you ready to have me make it right now...? sara

From: Lisa Iversen <miss1_2manyponies@yahoo.com>
To: sarashalda@aol.com
Sent: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:38 am
Subject: a stallion named George

Hi! I hope you will have time to respond to my question. I am a trainer (John Lyons, Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance style) and I have recently been asked to start a 4 year old Shire stallion under saddle. He has been treated with nothing but respect and love since he was born, and he has been bred to several mares with a few babies on the ground. He has no manners to speak of, and when I was out to that farm yesterday, I was working with the owners daughter on her gelding in the round pen. The stallion was turned loose in the larger pasture, to await me working with him, just to get started with ground work. For no reason that I could see, he suddenly broke through the round pen (powder river rail panels) and charged the gelding, biting the girl in the thigh and flinging her to the ground and attacking the gelding, who was subsequently thrown into the panels and knocked to the ground and bitten before we could get the gate open and let him out so he could run away and save himself. How would u proceed with this horse? I was thinking I would do some round pen reasoning with him, but he apparently has no respect for the round pen! I am at a loss to know what to do, other than advise the owners to geld him, which I know they do not want to do.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward eagerly to your response. You can e-mail me at miss1_2manyponiesyahoo.com, and if you require payment for your advice, I will be happy to make a donation to your PayPal account.

Thanks

Lisa

hi lisa

i understand your situation completely and i am so sorry you had to go thru that awful nightmare.......truly......thru no fault of your own you were under the impression this stud was trainable.

i have some bad news for you...stallions at this age are just too big and powerful to be molded into something they are not.

the time to start handling stallions to me completely respectful and submissive to the human world unfortunately has come and gone for this stallion........

you will never get it back.........

i always tell me clients the testoserone kicks in at about 6 months old..............if you dont have a superior and totally dominant handle on your stud colt by then...you will be in for alot of problems..................
there are stallions out there that are not aggressive in this manner...but in general testosterone will rule the day...................there is nothing you can do in the world to avoid this situation from happening again

what you can do however is learn from this event..................i never under any situation ever put my studs our near other horses unless they have proven themselves trustworthy...........they cant help it lisa....they are studs and they cant help acting like it....................it truly is natures way for a stallion to act this way.........................when they are feeling threatened for any reason by another horse they become dominant and act out

this horse will never be able to be trusted with other horses............the thought of riding this horse with other horses makes my blood run cold

let him be what he is.................
he would truly have to have his spirit completely broken to be settled and we dont have the right to do that at his age...........
he deserves respect not abuse............
only a change in the thoughts of the owners can happen now...............
tell them they must purchase a weanling and begin working with it everyday at least twice a day............i even put racing saddles on my weanlings so they understand from the beginning the saddle thing......
the window of opportunity is gone for this horse.........i dont want to see you get hurt and i know you or someone will if you attempt this.........
i have worked with many stallions...i love them...but they are not......repeat not like other horses............................
please keep in touch with me regarding this situation im really worried about it.......................
thank you so much for contacting me...truly
sara

.From: Lisa Iversen <miss1_2manyponies@yahoo.com>
To: sara shalda

Sara~

Thank you so much for your timely reply to my e-mail! ........ I had been thinking exactly what you said in your letter, ................and it was so nice to have someone with your knowledge confirm my thoughts!............... It was a great weight off my mind to know that I was right,.................. and it comforted me to know that I had not, through bad judgment put Jaime ................(the girl riding the gelding who was attacked) in danger. ................ I have already told Jaime that I can't work with George unless he is gelded,.................. and I told her that further, I would not work at that farm again unless George is gelded,................. or he is out in a stallion pen that he cannot break through. .................. I don't even want to go out there again unless these things are done. .........I feel that gelded, and properly trained (dressage, most likely) he would do well as ambassador for their farm in the show ring. .................... They could get a nice colt as you suggested and start over, perhaps with moire knowledge gained the hard way. ....................... I could help them then, I think. ................... Now I am just worried about Jaime, but I intend to keep in contact with her, and try to help her as much as I can. .......................... The stallion belongs to her mother, so that's the problem there, her mother is knowledgeable but feels that horses should only be loved, and not disciplined..................I feel that they are like, children in some ways, they should certainly be loved but they need rules; they need boundaries, and they are dangerous if they don't respect their handlers..................Anyway, thank you so much again for taking your time to help me, and may God bless you and yours~

Lisa

This is a picuture taken with my mare JM Trinity Belle, who came to me frightened, agressive, and not even really halter broekn. Now, while I don't think a child should be so close to a horses hooves, (her mother took this pic)

I feel that this picuture speaks to far a horse can go in learning to trust and take care of us if properly handled.

thank you lisa for writing my back.....i was really worried as well but feel better now too.....thank you for the photo.
also.....
would like to place you on my "friends" page ......would you like that ?........
if so please send a nice photo of yourself for others to see and network with you.........
thank you again for your kind words and your appreciation but most of all for your common sense to listen to your own heart in this matter and lovingly know i spoke only the truth...........
i love stallions but have learned ...sometimes the hard way....how to handle them properly and not all stallions are created equal...........
look forward to hearing from you my friend.........
take care and send me a photo :0).........\

p.s........sign my guest book

sara

I happened to get your web site from On Eagles Wings Equestrian Center. ....... When I was looking through pictures on your web site,......... I happened to recognize a grey Percheron advertised on Dream Horse so that was you? ......... I can’t remember the name of the horse, but I do remember it was a pretty cool name for a draft........... My husband and I own a 16 hand, Percheron mare we purchased three years ago. We use her in a Carriage business I also take her to horse shows once in a while. ............ Her lope needs finishing, ............and I can’t seem to find anyone interested in finishing her for me................... I did contact Stacy Westfall two years ago and was put on a list, but haven’t heard anything since. ............Nobody wants to be bothered with drafts. ..............She is learning collection in the walk/trot, but is extremely strung out in the lope, and really heavy on the front. ............. She may not be the best for training as she is really lazy, .............you do offer training. .... Is an individual able to visit your facilities and your horses? ...

.
how lovely to hear from you...................thank you......thank you for your kind words and compliments.......................about bob...thats my dream horse you saw.....yes that was him....................his name was....itz ok2 stare........he was one of the greatest angels to ever come into my live and still lives in my heart .......

.......the lady who bought him from indiana needed a 100 percent dependable horse......yep that was bob........i had really poured my heart and soul into this horse............but after meeting this lady my heart lifted again...........bob loved her and so did i...........i ended up loosing several thousands of dollars on that horse...............but what price do you put on happiness.............ok so.......on to business...............i can do anything stacy can do and more.............i can do it on a draft horse...............i can teach your mare bridless if you wish............she wont be able to slide like stacys horses but she can do everything else/.............here is the link to my horse training page..........please read very carefully.....
http://www.sarashaldaperformancehorses.com/id1.html....

.......................... you can ship her in next month and .... you are welcome to stay for a few days to help her settle in if you wish............also see my no bridle page..................i do have other people considering bringing in a horse next month as well ..............its really just a matter of who gets me the money first.......nothing personal just business....................please reply soon.....today if possible.....before the weekend........thank you for your time my friend....sara shalda

I would looovvvveee to take a ride on Clyde ................(being 6 foot tall and 165lbs, he’s just my size). .....................My husband would looooovvvveee to see Clyde................ I work Saturday mornings, maybe we could visit on a Sunday afternoon either this weekend or next.................... I appreciate your response and look forward to meeting you

Triangle or "Knife Edge" Bits

From: Jim Crawford <jcrawford@crawfordpr.com>
To: SARASHALDA@AOL.COM
2008
Sara, draft cross ("Cappy") who began bolting with me in late May. Formerly pretty gentle (enough so that my cousin with MS could ride him safely), in May he became a different horse....................:/ didn't respond to commands and would suddenly break into a canter and then a wild gallup.................. Pretty scary, as you can imagine!................. I couldn't stop him even from a trot. ...............In early July I took him to a local trainer the vet recommended. ................ Had my first ride on "Cappy" after one month of training & he was completely different...................... Now he rides on the bit, backs, trots, canters, etc., with no problem. ................... The trainer started him in Western tack, which I used for the first couple of rides before switching back to my Amerigo English style saddle last week, with no problems. ........................... Here's my question. The trainer started out with a twisted wire bit, then went to a triangle "knife edge" bit, which is what Cappy is still on. ............................ I was all set to go out and buy a triangle bit, & in searching for one online came across your site plus this one, which is very negative on triangle bits: http://www.horse-country.com/jriders/jrbits.html So who's right?............................ Is a triangle bit bad for my horse & is Cappy "behaving" simply because the bit is severe? ........................... If I revert to my regular snaffle bit, will the old "bolting" problems come back?, Although I've been riding English for 6 years, I obviously haven't learned enough if I let this problem develop in the first place. Thanks Jim Crawford jcrawford@crawfordpr.com

:
From:
sara shalda
To:
jcrawford@crawfordpr.com

..gosh jim...i really like your story and your farm...............thank you for writing to me,,,,i am honored...truly...that my opinion and my experiences are helpful to someone.............thank you for letting help you,,,,,,,also......................................another option for you is a threded screw mouth.............i can make a corse or a fine thread,,,,,,,,corse is more aggressive...........................these bits are not mean unless you see saw your reins,,,,,,,,so as long as your dont ride with alot of contact they are mild bits......................but when you need to get a horses attention ....just seee saw and kapow...new found respect and attention

From: Jim Crawford
Thank you, Sara - this is extremely helpful advice. Having heard too many times from various trainers that their way is the only way, it is refreshing to hear from someone who is open-minded and flexible. It makes absolute sense to have the right bits for the right occasion.I'm riding Cappy today and will share your thoughts with his trainer,Doug Linton. I like the idea of a triangle bit, and also the correction
port bit. I'll get back to you. I do indeed love my horses. We have two others here -- both rescued
race horses that we rode for awhile with mixed results 'til we learned that various health issues were the cause of unsettling riding experiences (not to mention a few cracked ribs and a broken collarbone for me in separate mishaps :-) ). Though unrideable and now fully retired, these fine old gentlemen will always have a home here at "Second Chance Farm."
Thanks again -- and best regards,
Jim
From: sara shalda

hi jim

thanks for your email. i understand your situation completely.......im sorry for your problems but that's how we all learn...please don't be too hard on your self.......i can tell you love your horse very much and only do the best you know how............many people have blinders on when it comes to bits....they are very opinionated and closed minded like the person who wrote the article you send me...............in my life i have used thousands of bits on thousands of horses...there is a bit for every reason..............in your situation you must have several bits and be prepared to use whatever you need to fit the situation that particular day gives you with your horse..................often times i have found myself riding back to the barn to change bridles after only riding about two minutes.................my horse was in a certain mood and i did not have the correct bit in his mouth to fit that situation..............so my advice is to do this: have a couple nice bits for when your horse is nice.............and have a couple naughty bits for when you horse is naughty....if he takes off with you....then the next day you can put a naught bit in him thats much more severe like a triangle fishback or even a notched triangle or even a correction port like this one...............guaranteed to not run away with you with this bit......it may only have to be used once or twice a year but .........its a good equalizer when you need it
there is no write or wrong bit.........
....there is only a right or wrong time to use one bit over another
for each good riding horse there should be 5 or 6 different bits to cover every conceivable situation .....these options should always include a good hackamore or two.............i am happy to build any bit you need in any size you need
thank you for your time my friend
sara shalda
thank you for your time my friend
sara shalda
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